Is -time 20 for both teams relevant for Versus?

This is an open debate. If there are irrelevant or insulting posts in this topic they need to be removed. I would be glad to uphold the position of Admin just for this particular topic. I am debating that -time 20 for both teams has no reason to be imposed as fair on all the players during versus.


#1: The objective of playing Versus on Sheep Tag Revolution is to beat the other players teams' time.

#2: The objective is not to use the rest of the time as practice time for both teams because objective #1 has already been fulfilled.

#3: The majority of players that realize that they have already won their versus game do not wish to continue, but instead treat the versus game as a horseplay game after they have exceeded their time to win.

I'm sure I can come up with more reasons, but I believe these are the ones that are most important.

I agree with tolli you might as well just -random if you dont want to play to beat the other teams time. Instead you end up typing -leader to see what time you have to beat its rather annoying. I can understand if the sheep team last 2 minutes and you want at least a 10 minute round. But if the sheep team last like 8-10 minutes and you make that a 20 minute round is just mind boggling.

Today's euro vs east game was a great example of why this mode sucks. East team died relatively quick thanks to a lucky early kill on Rogue. Euro team also began to die quickly to superior wolves, but in normal versus they would have won and that would have been the end of it. However, thanks to the 20 minute time the euros had the opportunity to get the solo euro on our team to betray the mid and ruin the game. What would have been a quick win/lose match turned into an annoying massacre (in which the euros all died again pretty quickly ROFL).

I havent made up my opinion about this yet, but it seems like the main problem here was that someone apperently betrayed his team.

If we disqualify a format beacause a person who betrays their team can potentially ruin the game we wont have any formats left.

Nah Shoop, I was just putting that out as an example of a cut and dried game gone to hell because of time 20. There are many others: terribad captain picks the wrong team and forces everyone he picks to wolf 20 minutes with him, one kid in game notorious for fucking up ruins the game by dying in the first 30 seconds etc... I really think its a needless format.

The best argument against both time 20 is that if the first team dies in less than 5 minute the normal way of winning is fast golems / fast item use.

How ever, if the fast golems fail and the second team survive 5 minutes, the wolves have 15 minutes left, where a 20 minute game strategy is all ready fucked up cus of mass unit use in first 5 mins instead of having 2 claws to 1 hitter.

Not knowing wether to strive to kill sheep in 4 mins to win or to "go for a 20 min game" makes it impossible to do time 20 in both.

(What I mean is that if u fail with ur kill-sheep-fast tactic you will HAVE to wolf for 20 mins due to so bad start)

+1 reputation for Traxx.

How about a compromise at atleast 10 minutes or something?

the only thing that is certain is that you have to be fair towards both teams, and let them play under the same circumstances. noone cares if you think its boring to play after you lost => its fun to continue on for the sheep. ''i go afk in -random because its boring to play after my team has lost."

its quite understandable that people consider afking/not giving a fuck as wolf on team 2, since people like drew wants to force the teams to play under different circumstances which obviously benefit team 1. there is no justifiable reason to AFK if the teams play under the same circumstances, and if you want to consider randomly going afk just cus you're bored a bad thing, you might use the same argument against any mode. you are giving people a GOOD reason to afk if their sheeping depends on how long they wolf.


current mode: how long you play sheep depends on how long you play wolf. there is no reason to win the game fast.

time 20 mode: you keep wolfing even after you have lost to reduce your wolfing time. how long you sheep doesn't depend on how long you wolf, so the only thing to do is to still keep trying ur best. randomly afking because you're bored at this point has nothing to do with the mode itself, and it has everything to do with people disliking to play wolf in general, which is further a reason to not let team 2 wolf more than team 1.



either both teams play sheep equally much, or team 1 playes more sheep than team 2. team 2 never plays more sheep than team 1(and team 2 always wolfs more than team 1). and it doesn't matter if "not everyone thinks sheeping is more fun than wolfing", you still have to go by the mode that's equally fair to both teams, REGARDLESS of what preferences people have.

There's no such thing as fair Amir. Both modes are equally unfair in different respects. What it comes down to is expediency, and obviously normal versus is more expedient.

Explain how both modes are equally unfair? I feel like giving both teams the same opportunity is as fair as it gets.

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either both teams play sheep equally much, or team 1 playes more sheep than team 2. team 2 never plays more sheep than team 1(and team 2 always wolfs more than team 1). and it doesn't matter if "not everyone thinks sheeping is more fun than wolfing", you still have to go by the mode that's equally fair to both teams, REGARDLESS of what preferences people have.

Most people don't play one game a lifetime. That is, people will be on team one equally as much as team two, so it evens out on the long hall.
(I'm sure this isn't 100% true, the best are more likely to be on team 1 than team 2 and vise versa, but it's not a huge difference.)

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current mode: how long you play sheep depends on how long you play wolf. there is no reason to win the game fast.

time 20 mode: you keep wolfing even after you have lost to reduce your wolfing time.

I lol'd.

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randomly afking because you're bored at this point has nothing to do with the mode itself, and it has everything to do with people disliking to play wolf in general

Anyone remember that argument long ago about playing ST to "win" rather than playing to have "fun"? I like how that now this current argument depends on the inverse of the former premise, people change their views.

You aren't though. A team stuck with a captain that picks a shit team is forced to wolf right along with their bad captain. That isn't fair to anyone. As was said above you may as well random if you are going to do time 20.

Nice @ Chak ^^

chakra, i dont think you understand what im saying. i stated pretty clearly that the argument applies regardless of whether people play for fun or to win. making it fair for both teams is the only rational option.

and prodigy just get lost already. ''both modes are equally unfair" ye ok einstein. read my post again or explain how time 20 is unfair. you are CRAZY prodigy. crazy.

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Most people don't play one game a lifetime. That is, people will be on team one equally as much as team two, so it evens out on the long hall.
(I'm sure this isn't 100% true, the best are more likely to be on team 1 than team 2 and vise versa, but it's not a huge difference.)

The "best are more likely to be on team 1" comment actually factors in a lot, the top 3 people in a game almost never change which team they are on during a game, and even if every person was team 1 50% of the time, it would be with different teams and therefore still not fair.

Also, I don't think we should be changing/keeping modes the way they are because of how a noob captain picks.

You will have a good pair of captains maybe 2 out of every 5 matches. This seems like a pretty good basis to throw out time 20 mode. Quicker games and a change of teams faster = more entertaining. Maybe I should put up another multiple choice poll to confuse the hell out of Amir? "Gee, can I REALLY check more than one box?"

prodigy you should really be locked up in a cage with dogs. you're a nut.

how can you even post that shit? "maybe its 2 out of 6 game where its good cap so time 20 is therefor not fair, cus more fun to change cap faster!!". you might as well just tell me a story about your autistic nephew and conclude that time 20 isnt fair.

what the SHITS has your perception of fun/entertainment to do with fairness? are you really a complete idiot?

What are you talking about? You ARE my autistic nephew. Did you forget again?

I think this argument comes down to one ideological difference. Some people want to actually win versus, other people only care how long they get to sheep. Those people will continue to argue for -time 20 because they feel its unfair if they only get to sheep for as long as the other team. The people that play versus to win really don't care, because after they win what's the point in still playing. At that point neither team has any true motivation to play well, because you have either already lost or won. You wouldn't do -time 20 in a STWC match would you? There would be no point at all. If I remember correctly the entire point of putting -versus into the game was to create an environment where people would play seriously, doing -time 20 in some manner ruins that and creates boring games for both teams.

Zoolander you prove again you are an idiot.

Can some of the retards in this thread reply directly to amir's large post on the first page?

I don't see the need for all this blibber-blabber in the thread. That post crushes everything in this thread - please respond to it if you have anything to say.

Amir and Sidey seriously dont understand the long run argument?

zo0 i dont see what that has to do with anything. i DONT CARE what you or drew prefer, or why you play ST. i want my sheep round to last until my team dies, and i am completely entitled to that because i gave that privileged to team 1. you can't get around the fairness argument, and it alone sends you back to the pig stall where you and the other anti-20min people belong.

there is no argument which outweighs this. if there is, it hasn't been presented so far. you have no motivation to play wolf after you lost, i have no motivation to play wolf if i can't play sheep. this is the same thing zo0 and it shouldn't be your argument against time 20.

Zoo actually summed it up perfectly and I agree with whoever said that people's opinions on time 20 vs time plus one second probably arent going to change so I suggest a compromise.

Option A) As I said earlier, give the second team atleast 10 minutes.

Option B) Split versus into two commands: The standard -versus with time plus one and a command along the lines of -vers20 that would always give the second team 20 minutes.

there is no compromise. it won't satisfy anyone and it will turn out by being bad for everyone involved.

if zo0 and his side is right, you lose motivation to play after you lost no matter how many minutes there are left.

if im right, team 2 should have possibility to play as much sheep as team 1.

Just to clarify (I put this in my post but you might have missed it/decided not to respond to it), I lose interest in playing my best after I have already lost, AND after I have already won. I see no point in continuing to sheep after I have won the game, there is no goal in my mind. My mindset becomes "Hey it doesn't matter if I die now so I'll do whatever I want", Instead of "I need to play my best so that my team doesn't lose".