Shoop democracy = dictatorship

Greetings everyone! Legends, horseys, and toilets!

Shoop may have manipulated some of you into believing that his system of democracy is good for the community. Guess what? It's not.

His system is a giant waste of time and resources that will never come to fruition because his idea sucks and no one pertinent supports it other than clowns (i.e. greatlakes and azzuro).

It's a system designed to stall recent proposals made by me which have gained a lot of support throughout the community.

If you look the forums we have about 10 people discussing map changes. What shoop wants to do is to tap into the other players who are not qualified to discuss changes and who are not interested in them to, I suppose but I don't see how, gain support for his own ideas. This is, as I said, a MASSIVE waste of resources.

Shoop hides behind the label of "democracy" and argues such that if you are against HIS ideas you are against democracy = you are an evil communist or similar.

We're not doing Shoop's idea and he's had 1 week to gather forces. He's still got no one. We've got TONS of people against him.

He has spent the last 5 hours talking non-stop about this bullshit idea so I thought I'd spoil all his work with a 2minute post and bring things back into perspective

Stay cool people - don't get brainwashed by this hitler.

Shoop is clearly a god if he can become a dictator without control of the map and him setting this up isn't wasting anyone's time except maybe his own.

"It's a system designed to stall recent proposals made by me which have gained a lot of support throughout the community. "
What changes have you requested that I havent made?



I'm troubled, if I side with you I'm an evil communist, but if I go with shoop I'm not cool...

Evil communist or uncool, why does the world hate me so?

Nice, finally we got some discussion.

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His system is a giant waste of time and resources that will never come to fruition because his idea sucks and no one pertinent supports it other than clowns (i.e. greatlakes and azzuro).

Obviously it will take some time to implement the system, but once it is implemented it will greatly shorten the process of every decision we have to make.

The notion that its not supported by "pertinent" people isnt really relevant to the idea at all. I dont know if this is the case since very few people have commented, but if it is true big changes rarley have support instantly, usually people are skeptic at first and have a lot of questions that need answers. It is just at the ideastage atm but mainly its a very simple version of representive democracy, and even though I am flattered I think it would be arrogant of me to name the idea after me since I am far from first with this idea.

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It's a system designed to stall recent proposals made by me which have gained a lot of support throughout the community.

This is a common argument used against democracy when it is at the ideastage, usually used by the persons who currently have power. But as I said this system will greatly decrease the process in which we make decisions regarding the map.

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If you look the forums we have about 10 people discussing map changes. What shoop wants to do is to tap into the other players who are not qualified to discuss changes and who are not interested in them to, I suppose but I don't see how, gain support for his own ideas. This is, as I said, a MASSIVE waste of resources.

I have no idea who those 10 people are and why those 10 would be the 10 best to make decisions. But if this notion is true those 10 would be the same people making the decisions in a democracy. Except ofcourse people who use lies and threats as tools will lose influence since people wont vote for them as their representants in the long run. I dont see why I would get more influence in a democracy unless you think I represent ideas which a vast majority supports, in that case I dont see why those ideas should be listened more to?

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Shoop hides behind the label of "democracy" and argues such that if you are against HIS ideas you are against democracy = you are an evil communist or similar.

I am not arguing that you are against democracy if you argue against my ideas, I am arguing you are against democracy if you argue against democracy. Which you happend to do. I dont know what communism has to do with anything. I dont think I made any moral arguments about what system is good/evil either.

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We're not doing Shoop's idea and he's had 1 week to gather forces. He's still got no one. We've got TONS of people against him.

So you are arguing beacause this idea hasnt gotten complete support in 1 week we should forget about it? I dont see any reason to stop arguing for my ideas beacause I dont instantly have support for them. Trying to silence people who dont share the opinion of the majority doesnt benefit anyone.

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He has spent the last 5 hours talking non-stop about this bullshit idea so I thought I'd spoil all his work with a 2minute post and bring things back into perspective

Well I got nothing against this tbh. This is a good thread Imo and regardless what system we will use in the future I think its positive we have different opinion and a discussion around them.

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Stay cool people - don't get brainwashed by this hitler.

I couldnt agree more. If people support this idea I really hope its beacause they think its a good idea and not beacause I suggested it and they look up to me/got "brainwashed" by me.

Also I think this topic belong in the map discussion section, but others should be the judge of that since I am so obviously involved in this topic.

Shoop system = include people that are not interested in discussing the map and posting on the forums so that he gains more power by spending hours and hours gossiping with 14 year olds on bnet.

Like everyone else I won't reply to Shoop in more detail because he just keeps posting without end even if you prove him wrong 54 times.

Why would people who are not interested bother to register and vote?

Any would people not care what happends to the map? Even though they are not interested if they actually do vote they will still have an opinion about if we should add stack etc. Most people seem to think that for instance. So obviously they will vote for the person who shares their opinion.

Shoop's idea behind this project is as follows:

Because none of the Legends support any of his ideas - in fact no one that has had to do with him in the past supports his ideas whatsoever - he wants to use all the other players that have no interest in the map or are 14 years old as leverage. This idea allows Shoop to spend hours and hours(something he loves to do) campaigning for stupid ideas on bnet and thus winning support through nobodies.

I think instead we should take it as a warning that all legends despise his ideas.

Shoop doesn't care for democracy AT ALL - this is smoke-screen designed to fool people with no analytical ability like prodigy and beer.

Shoop condemned sheeptag.net for the longest time yet the WHOLE time he was posting there and helping to keep it active. Why? Because it was the best move to maximize his power regardless of any democratic views he may express. Shoop wants power - nothing else. He was an active member on sheeptag.net because he had admin there for a long time and because it gave him extra power to have relations with freaks like chakra and drew.

That's the essence of it. Please understand that all legends hate Shoop's ideas for VERY very VERY good reasons.

That's all for now!

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Because none of the Legends support any of his ideas - in fact no one that has had to do with him in the past supports his ideas whatsoever - he wants to use all the other players that have no interest in the map or are 14 years old as leverage. This idea allows Shoop to spend hours and hours(something he loves to do) campaigning for stupid ideas on bnet and thus winning support through nobodies.

A lot of the "legends" support my ideas. I dont really care atm about the stack, but some legends agree with me to remove invis and everyone I talked to, including you, thought it might be a good idea for the future to add golem as an ability. However none of this is relevant.

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I think instead we should take it as a warning that all legends despise his ideas.

What ideas?

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Shoop doesn't care for democracy AT ALL - this is smoke-screen designed to fool people with no analytical ability like prodigy and beer.

? I think democracy is the best system. Thats why I am arguing for it. How can any of this be a smoke-screen lol, you think Ill rig the election?

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Shoop condemned sheeptag.net for the longest time yet the WHOLE time he was posting there and helping to keep it active. Why? Because it was the best move to maximize his power regardless of any democratic views he may express. Shoop wants power - nothing else. He was an active member on sheeptag.net because he had admin there for a long time and because it gave him extra power to have relations with freaks like chakra and drew.

I kept posting long after I was removed from admin, unlike you who stopped shortly after you lost yours. During my whole time at sheeptag.net I was a critical voice and made several attempts to start other forums. With little help from you.

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That's the essence of it. Please understand that all legends hate Shoop's ideas for VERY very VERY good reasons.

What ideas are you talking about? Democracy? Who hates democracy except you?

Effloresce wrote:

Shoop doesn't care for democracy AT ALL - this is smoke-screen designed to fool people with no analytical ability like prodigy and beer.

No analytical ability eh? I have the ability to realize you are some INSANE geek you are preaching to a bunch of people who don't give a shit about a supposed government for a VIDEO GAME. Either your a complete TOOL or your trolling. Look whose posted in this topic just YOU and SHOOP. No one gives a flying FUCK about some retarded governmental proposal for a game called SHEEP TAG. You are such a loser you try to make SHEEP TAG reality by creating a GOVERNMENT?!?!? Get some real friends and stop trying to make this like real life because you will only end up failing twice.

Now leave me the fuck outta this you stupid geek

LOL holy shit beer, i havent laughed that much in days.


obviously respect to both shoop and sidey, as well as anyone who has tried to do something for ST, despite the agenda. id rather have 10 shoops who fight for power than 10 jeanmiis who anonymously sit in the corner and leech of the party everyone else makes rather than contributing themselves.

I think sidey sees his own "power" in danger, since a democratic system vote would cancel his only joker a la "and mass people in europe support my ideas". Just think of sideys list he posted to backup his non-sense.
Never saw as much fake and lies. Of course it looks like a HUGE effort to make that system, but it doesn't hurt people, nor does it give shoop more power than he has now.

P.S.@sidey
Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly.

why does everyone freak out when they get smallest flame thrown at them?

i see pros and cons in both systems.
sidey system => eliminates the horses from having any influence. horses include both people that don't care(thus are easily influenced into voting for something in return for some small favor or a few compliments) and people that are simply too stupid to understand the arguments from both sides. ofc there wont only be einsteins in sidey system, but it would be gather what we do have in form of analytical ability, while still keeping it democratic to some degree.

negatives: hard to decide who gets to have a say/vote.

shoop system => fully democratic, and the issue of ''who gets to vote!?!?'' doesn't exist. however, it accepts votes from people that have NO idea what they are talking about, and its much easier to corrupt the previously mentioned horses(vote for this idea and ill be nice to you XD).



the system which is most likely to make a good map is obviously sideys system, since you focus on getting votes from people that have some sort of reasoning ability while shoops system focuses more on who can convince retards(that fall for any pseudo-logic and flawed reasoning) to vote for their ideas.

Argueing with people like amir or sidey (and others) often ends up with "reasonable analytics" such as assuming the other guy ment to say abortion=racist, when you said something 2 pages above and something unrelated later. So it doesn't sound attractive participating in any conversation they're taking part in at all (This is in defense of people that can't be bothered following threads on this forum).
I know that amir or sidey (and others) got another side, but you have to be lucky to find them in a non-trolling state.

For me it's clear that people thinking the rest of the community is retarded shouldn't alone hold power over that community, too.
It's naive to think that few have pro analytical skills and therefore should run everything. Our community is too small to seriously want few to make every desicion and everyone in the sheep tag community is playing sheep tag, so there should be noone with absolutely no clue about sheep tag and therefore we don't need anyone to tell them what's best for them, because they probably know what they want from the game.
Including people our "legends" assume are retarded imo brings more content to discussion and show what "mass people" want (wich suddenly is a valued arguement for sidey when it suits him). In the democracy-system the new content is catched/discussed/filtered by so-called legends in the party-discussion-threads, so the party-leaders still have more power than all the "retarded kids". Only what all the people playing the map want and probably more content validates every discussion. Not only that, it probably speeds up rather unimportant votes by a pure majority-vote.

Lol beer

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I think sidey sees his own "power" in danger, since a democratic system vote would cancel his only joker a la "and mass people in europe support my ideas". Just think of sideys list he posted to backup his non-sense.

Please - my power doesn't hinge upon some freak shoop-democracy(=dictatorship) idea. I could quit sheep tag and come back in three years and I would still have the same power after a week.

Shoop's idea is STUPID because:

1. It costs a massive amount of resources and time with no pay-off.

2. It's unneeded because no one besides current forum posters care or are qualified to comment on map changes.

3. Other games are not run/built like this for the reasons above.

yo we care deeply yo

Let's have a look at your points. Shall we?

Effloresce wrote:

1. It costs a massive amount of resources and time with no pay-off.

2. It's unneeded because no one besides current forum posters care or are qualified to comment on map changes.

3. Other games are not run/built like this for the reasons above.

1. It costs a massive amount of resources and time with no pay-off.
The massive amount of resources probably is one new section with about 5 sub-sections where each about 5 people are allowed to post, each thread has one shortly elected party-leader. Every person is only allowed to be in one sub-section.
The whole rest won't really need to be planned in detail.

Big Deal.

2. It's unneeded because no one besides current forum posters care or are qualified to comment on map changes.
I already told you what might be a reason for people not wanting to take place in discussion on this forum (some people don't want to argue with people having radical/flaming attitude), therefore only party-leaders argue in a council and are the interface of position-making where it comes to hot-spots.
So this new democracy-system might increase activity on the forum. I also replied to what you think of "unqualified people" (last reply: "retarded people")

3. Other games are not run/built like this for the reasons above.
Of course benchmarking is important, but I wonder why you think other games don't use forums, sub-forums, aggregated information represented by sub-section-directors and councelers each knowing what some people want to see in the game.

Furthermore, noone wants you to hold back the good dieas you have for the map, it's just that the desicion-making about it will be more sufficient.

This is my thesis and I'm trying to include your thesis, so we can get a synthesis where we agree or atleast agree to disagree.

Amir wrote:

its much easier to corrupt the previously mentioned horses(vote for this idea and ill be nice to you XD).

The votes will obviously be anonymous so you can in no way trace who voted for who. People will vote for the one who they think have best ideas for sheep tag.

Sidey wrote:

the system which is most likely to make a good map is obviously sideys system, since you focus on getting votes from people that have some sort of reasoning ability while shoops system focuses more on who can convince retards(that fall for any pseudo-logic and flawed reasoning) to vote for their ideas.

That is not true at all. Democracy will always lead to the best decisions in the long run, whereas Sideys system will lead to internal powerstruggles and corruption which in the end will damage the map. In a democracy people who dont follow their promises or whos argument turn out to be flawed will soon be left without voters. A representive democracy is basicly the same idea as Sidey only we have an actual system to determine who is in the council and a jury that will throw out those in the council whos promises turn out to be empty or whos arguments are flawed.

With Sideys system it will just come down to manipulation, lies and personal attack. Which is the climate Sidey likes best. Actually defending his idea with argument, which he would have to do in a democracy, isnt his strong suit.

For instance just in this thread along Sidey wrote several claims I asked him to support which he completley ignored. This behaviour would be punished instantly in a democracy whereas in a council of few where the jury are the same people who needs Sideys votes noone will question it.

Sidey wrote:

1. It costs a massive amount of resources and time with no pay-off.

It is true that it will take time to set up. What other resources you are referring to I do not know. But once we got it running it will actually be extremly time efficient. If we look through a longer perspective than the next week the time it takes to set up this system is a very small cost for the time we will save once its up and ESPECIALLY for the good decisions we can make regarding the map.

Sidey wrote:

2. It's unneeded because no one besides current forum posters care or are qualified to comment on map changes.

This is complete bullshit.

Sidey wrote:

3. Other games are not run/built like this for the reasons above.

Other countries wasnt democratic either before. Was the first democracy a misstake? I dont say this is an argument for democracy in sheeptag. It just explain why Sideys argument isnt valid. Also which other games are run/built according to your idea with a council of of the most frequent forumposters plus some of your friends?