Itio #1 ster in the world

yo itio so fucking pro this kid is legit #1 ST player in the world and ill explain why:

Sheep tag is such a simple fucking game anyone can master this game easily in a matter of <2months. im the best dota player out here heres my stats on dotacash

http://www.dotacash.com/index.php?p=tier2stats&u=bubzbeauty&r=useast.battle.net&s=datetime&o=desc&n=0
i got top 25 of tier 2 rankings in less than 40 games (i currently have 60 played and have fucked up my record but i have proved i can make it to the top 25 in a few games played) and most of the top 100 rankings got to their ranking with a lot of games played. i got vouched for LIHL, north american dota pro league = high skilled gaming. played with people on gosugamers.net such as power.net,1437,universe ETC

90% of the sheep taggers who play dota SUCKASS, concludes dota is a way harder game than sheep tag, maybe 5 times harder.

that being said, the #1 dota player is EASILY without a doubt the #1 ST player. r3v-fre4k whos also a rly good dota player would master sheep tag in fucking weeks i promise you that.

im way better than exa, amir, shoop, chaise, traxx, top tier players of europe u name it. and playing captains against me and beating me does not prove you're better. it proves the 5 other players of your team > the 5 other players on my team (this is a 6v6 scenario)

roses are red violets are blue
SWAG(:

You're #1 ST'er?




I dont play dota, but i played it like 4 times and it's fucking easy.
You just need a bit knowledge how to use abilities and items => win
at Sheep tag you need more tactic, teamwork, brain, etc.
If you play sheep tag for 2 months you're as good as Swimstar probably.

Think you can do better? Try your best!

Chakra wrote:

Think you can do better? Try your best!

LEGEND!

chakra numero uno.
Itio numero FAILURE

I can always count on itio to make me rofl like a freak

itio sucks ass at ST and at DOTA, and i have proven it already (i've made threads with undeniable proof on whis forums, which ill bring up if necessary).





Boom BAm BING BING Cha Cha Cha Cha CHAKRA!!!!!!!

Lol DOTA is the simplest game if you want actual skill play me 1v1 SC2 lets go itio.

Dota is so easy you micro one unit press qwer sit in a lane and right click on things when their health bar is low. Dota = so boring you farm for 20 minutes press qwer auto attack and then game is over.

Sheep tag the "farming" aspect you have to actually have good reflexes to build farms its not just right clicking.

So farming in sheep tag is harder then farming in dota

Next is team play

Team play in Dota can barely be called team play if your ally messes up in dota no big deal wait for them to respawn try again. In sheep tag if your ally dies or a wolf messes up on an iso the whole team pays for it. There is no "Respawn time" before another isolation or "respawn time" till the sheep is alive again.

Dota it takes like 100 games to learn every champion then you can began to play the game on a fair level after you know what every hero does etc. etc.
Sheep Tag everything for you to know you can learn in the first game to be on an equal level, but to know how to be good with it takes much longer.

So dota your guaranteed to be good after 100 games
Sheep tag your guaranteed to be good when your actually good


Also itio you say you mastered Dota in like 2 years? But it took your 6 years to master sheep tag? Yeah my point is spoken dota is a MUCH MUCH MUCH simpler game virtually 0 skill. I play LoL which is basically a not retarded version of dota and its much easier then sheep tag. My friends who try to play sheep tag who are gods at shooters/just about every other game fail miserably and just give up on the game.

Edit: you said it takes 2 months to master sheep tag? Then why did it take 6 years for you
Edit: You got top tier in dotacash after 40 games? This game must be so simple

XXXandBEER wrote:

Lol DOTA is the simplest game if you want actual skill play me 1v1 SC2 lets go itio.

Dota is so easy you micro one unit press qwer sit in a lane and right click on things when their health bar is low. Dota = so boring you farm for 20 minutes press qwer auto attack and then game is over.

Sheep tag the "farming" aspect you have to actually have good reflexes to build farms its not just right clicking.

So farming in sheep tag is harder then farming in dota

Next is team play

Team play in Dota can barely be called team play if your ally messes up in dota no big deal wait for them to respawn try again. In sheep tag if your ally dies or a wolf messes up on an iso the whole team pays for it. There is no "Respawn time" before another isolation or "respawn time" till the sheep is alive again.

Dota it takes like 100 games to learn every champion then you can began to play the game on a fair level after you know what every hero does etc. etc.
Sheep Tag everything for you to know you can learn in the first game to be on an equal level, but to know how to be good with it takes much longer.

So dota your guaranteed to be good after 100 games
Sheep tag your guaranteed to be good when your actually good


Also itio you say you mastered Dota in like 2 years? But it took your 6 years to master sheep tag? Yeah my point is spoken dota is a MUCH MUCH MUCH simpler game virtually 0 skill. I play LoL which is basically a not retarded version of dota and its much easier then sheep tag. My friends who try to play sheep tag who are gods at shooters/just about every other game fail miserably and just give up on the game.

Edit: you said it takes 2 months to master sheep tag? Then why did it take 6 years for you
Edit: You got top tier in dotacash after 40 games? This game must be so simple

I assume you haven't played dota on any higher level than the easiest pubs?

Dota is so much more than what you describe it to be, there is so much that you is wrong on that i cba to explain everything. Just a few things you are wrong on:

Farming isn't just about lasthitting creeps. That would be the case if you didn't have enemies but when you have enemies there's a lot more you have to consider. Harassing, your enemies farm, denying, ganks, not pushing, + all the aspects that comes when you're being ganked or killing such as spell- and item-use, juking, avoiding tower etc etc.

Teamwork: Pushing, teamfights, roshan, ganking, baiting, assisting etc etc

Then there's ofc almost unlimited mastery when it comes to individual skill, try to play invoker for 20 games and see if you mastered him, i doubt it.

There is millions of more things i can mention but i think you got the picture. You can ask anyone who played both sheeptag and dota at a fairly high level and they will agree with me. For example, i have played much more dota than st and still i am far from the dota elite while i'm one of the best at st.

Quote :

For example, i have played much more dota than st and still i am far from the dota elite while i'm one of the best at st.

part of the reason here is that there are 20 sheeptag players and about 1000x more dota players

but i agree with enstek overall. obviously dota takes massive amounts of mastery. the thing with ST is that its easy to master the stuff which u can master, and then you get stuck because it requires a massive amount of game-understanding and "intelligence" of some sort, which you can't really master through practice.

while dota also has a big portion of game-understanding and intelligence as well, there are alot more aspects to master through practice, which means that trollpro can become better than me at dota through years of practice, but he can never become better than me at ST.



many sheeptaggers make the connection ''im not as good as chiefhero, but i've played for 4 years, therefor i havent mastered st". this is ofc wrong. they have mastered the stuff you can master, but they got bad understanding and evaluation of different situations. dota takes longer to master than st, no question.

EnStekPaNnaWOLF wrote:

I assume you haven't played dota on any higher level than the easiest pubs?

Dota is so much more than what you describe it to be, there is so much that you is wrong on that i cba to explain everything. Just a few things you are wrong on:

Farming isn't just about lasthitting creeps. That would be the case if you didn't have enemies but when you have enemies there's a lot more you have to consider. Harassing, your enemies farm, denying, ganks, not pushing, + all the aspects that comes when you're being ganked or killing such as spell- and item-use, juking, avoiding tower etc etc.

Teamwork: Pushing, teamfights, roshan, ganking, baiting, assisting etc etc

Then there's ofc almost unlimited mastery when it comes to individual skill, try to play invoker for 20 games and see if you mastered him, i doubt it.

There is millions of more things i can mention but i think you got the picture. You can ask anyone who played both sheeptag and dota at a fairly high level and they will agree with me. For example, i have played much more dota than st and still i am far from the dota elite while i'm one of the best at st.

I know the game mechanics on laning. I always forget you can "deny" in dota LMFAO that makes zoning 10 times easier. LoL is harder then Dota and Sheep tag is harder then both and SC2 is the hardest game ever made. The reason your not top elite in dota is because the reason amir said and you want to know why? Because dota is skill less allowing it pub friendly whereas kids that play sheep tag quit right away because they have no idea what they are doing. For instance ive played with many friends irl they see me in sheep tag and are bewildered at how i do it/
Dota is 100% game intelligence the skill is knowing where to be and when to be there. Its not hard to press Q W E R and figure out the combos for a champ. Any idiot can use skill shots...

Lol @ master invoker mastering a champ is easy let me watch you play him 2-3 games ill be a god at him.

Dota is a fluff filled game the game should seriously have 3 champions intel agility str no reason for anymore besides maybe some hybrids. Its also completely unbalanced compared to sheep tag.

And on a closing note sheep tag skill is never ending i have yet to see anyone deny there farms from wolves. Besides when they deny auras or frosts. But no one denies regular farms while they mass its just to hard no one is at that skill level. I still believe no one in this community has "mastered" sheep tag because if they have then they could 1v5 EASY with runtag/juking. The run tag in sheep tag is an ENDLESS amount of skill

APM
Dota: 100ish
Sheep Tag Sheep: 250ish/Wolf 100ish
SC2: 400-500

Nuff said you talk about mastery get on sc2 lets see what you have mastered. Games where you control 1 unit are easy as shit. And dont compare wc3 ladder to sc2 ladder. Wc3 ladder is slow paced and just awful. SC2 theres more units more expanding

Though I'm far from being an expert, I tend to agree with beer. I was able to go positive in a west hosted DOTA clan game after about 5 matches to learn the ins and outs of the game. Granted I only mastered one champ (Bone Fletcher is an easy one or so I'm told) but still... Also I may point out that this was a pretty casual clan, I don't know how their skill is in relation to WhiS, nevertheless they weren't pubs.

How the uck is apm relevent to how hard it is to mater a game ill reply to this when i come home from school

Beer ur a fking rehab

I_think_i_own wrote:

How the uck is apm relevent to how hard it is to mater a game ill reply to this when i come home from school

Beer ur a fking rehab

LOL apm is like 5% of the shit i said in my post. Also APM is the everything to a game... a game with low apm means its slow paced not much going on. Higher apm the more shit thats happening. hurry up and get home from school i want to see your retarded argument of how dota is hard to master.

I can't believe all this difference of opinion!
I think this must be a problem of definitions, so I'll make a distinction between what I'll call "inherent mastery" and "taking a long time to master". They may be different for several factors.


1. The first reason dota takes a "long time to master" is because of the vast amount of heros / items and the fact that the makers are constantly adding more to this mix.
I think most would be in agreement that this is something else, something more knowledge based then mastery in itself. The core dota gameplay has not changed for many years, and is the same on HoN, LoL, dota 2, Allstars, roc dota, etc. It's relative ease upon which it is picked up and understood is what has made it a success.

2. The other major bias I think people have is not realizing what number of players does to the competitiveness of a game. Having millions of people playing a game raises the bar. ST has very, very few numbers of players. In many ways our current level of mastery is capped because of the few number of players more than anything else. Without a large pool of pros, the current pool of pros can't really make themselves better or take the game to new heights. So in essence a game with less inherent mastery could appear to have a lot more to master when it's player base is a million times that of another game.


The only game on wc that I know of with significantly more inherent mastery than sheep tag is ladder itself. Because while st has a lot of single unit micro, it doesn't have multiple unit micro, nor does it have as much strategy.

Again, you can think what you want, and I doubt any dota worshippers will change their minds. I doubt anyone's ever changed their minds on these forums for that matter. But when you have this big debate about how mastery should be a standard, and then you claim that DOTA is the gold standard for mastery you indicate to me and most other sane observers that you do not know what you are talking about.

Some huge misconceptions in this thread.

Quote :

And on a closing note sheep tag skill is never ending i have yet to see anyone deny there farms from wolves. Besides when they deny auras or frosts. But no one denies regular farms while they mass its just to hard no one is at that skill level. I still believe no one in this community has "mastered" sheep tag because if they have then they could 1v5 EASY with runtag/juking. The run tag in sheep tag is an ENDLESS amount of skill

There is no mastery in 1v5. Just because something is incredibly difficult does not mean it requires a lot of mastery.

There are barely any differences between great and average players when it comes to 1v5.

That means there is barely any skill(mastery) involved in 1v5.

I thought they were just arguing over who is better at DotA @ Drew? Are they accepting the premise that being good at game A means they are also good at game B? In which case, since I'm the best at drawing (see my Pony?), I am also the best at ST.

Chakra wrote:

I thought they were just arguing over who is better at DotA @ Drew? Are they accepting the premise that being good at game A means they are also good at game B? In which case, since I'm the best at drawing (see my Pony?), I am also the best at ST.

don't mess with itio at drawing! he does it all day and night:

XXXandBEER wrote:

Dota is so easy you micro one unit press qwer sit in a lane and right click on things when their health bar is low. Dota = so boring you farm for 20 minutes press qwer auto attack and then game is over.

the role you're talking about is the carry, which all u do is farm whole game and participate in team battles when you're strong enough. This doesnt pretain to the other roles such as support, solo mid, gank, jungle etc

XXXandBEER wrote:

Sheep tag the "farming" aspect you have to actually have good reflexes to build farms its not just right clicking. So farming in sheep tag is harder then farming in dota

building farms in sheep tag is similar to last hitting in dota except you have to time it so you actually get the last hit.

XXXandBEER wrote:

dota it takes like 100 games to learn every champion then you can began to play the game on a fair level after you know what every hero does etc. etc.
Sheep Tag everything for you to know you can learn in the first game to be on an equal level, but to know how to be good with it takes much longer.

ur rly stupid if u think this. you need to play each hero at least once to know how their spells/attack animations work, i highly doubt it took you 100 games in LoL to be decent

XXXandBEER wrote:

So dota your guaranteed to be good after 100 games
Sheep tag your guaranteed to be good when your actually good

it takes you WAY more than 100 games to be good at dota ROFL more like 500+ to be actually above average. ive seen kids on euro who has 1k+ games played yet they're not remotely close to being decent. (chaise/borja)
http://www.dotacash.com/index.php?p=tier1stats&u=riddle_of_steel&r=uswest.battle.net&s=datetime&o=desc&n=0
TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GUYS STATS, hes played about 1500 games and look at his kdr/wlr. its self explanatory, you can play a shit load of dota games but you won't master it til you actually think every situation out like how i did when i mimic pro gamers. ST is so simple lol? its repitive as fuck, build farms, mapgrid, positioning, Etc while in dota its a shit load you have to learn

XXXandBEER wrote:

Also itio you say you mastered Dota in like 2 years? But it took your 6 years to master sheep tag? Yeah my point is spoken dota is a MUCH MUCH MUCH simpler game virtually 0 skill. I play LoL which is basically a not retarded version of dota and its much easier then sheep tag. My friends who try to play sheep tag who are gods at shooters/just about every other game fail miserably and just give up on the game.

ive played st since 2008 dumbass u even asked me how long i've played because of my default zoom is always the current year we're in. i am HIGHLY positive you would never get good at dota or dota 2 if you took the game seriously. if euros cant master the game with 500+ games played then you obviously cant

XXXandBEER wrote:

Edit: You got top tier in dotacash after 40 games? This game must be so simple

are you fucking stupid? the dotacash system is similar to the ELO system in chess. In tier 2, the teams are randomed to have the closest amount of elo on each team. Therefore we're gonna gain the constant 14-16 elo when we win or lose 14-16 elo when you lose. Thats why im top 25 in only 40 games

XXXandBEER wrote:

I know the game mechanics on laning. I always forget you can "deny" in dota LMFAO that makes zoning 10 times easier.I know the game mechanics on laning. I always forget you can "deny" in dota LMFAO that makes zoning 10 times easier. LoL is harder then Dota and Sheep tag is harder then both and SC2 is the hardest game ever made. The reason your not top elite in dota is because the reason amir said and you want to know why? Because dota is skill less allowing it pub friendly whereas kids that play sheep tag quit right away because they have no idea what they are doing. For instance ive played with many friends irl they see me in sheep tag and are bewildered at how i do it/
Dota is 100% game intelligence the skill is knowing where to be and when to be there. Its not hard to press Q W E R and figure out the combos for a champ. Any idiot can use skill shots...

how does denying make zoning easier?????? denying is what makes dota a HARDER game than LoL, because denying experience is a huge factor in the game. Also denying towers/denying your allies when they are poisoned or doomed. its another choice you have to make when you're in a situation in dota. should you go for the deny on the tower, or should you go for the kill? in LoL you dont have the opportunity to make those two choices.
sheep tags not obviously harder than dota. look at the top ST players of each realm, they are NO WHERE close to being top in dota. Only person would be amir who is actually good. Look at chaise/exa/shoop/cow out of those 4 they are considered top st players, and they are fucking horrible at dota.

XXXandBEER wrote:

Lol @ master invoker mastering a champ is easy let me watch you play him 2-3 games ill be a god at him.

it actually took me 20-25 games to master invoker. hes one of the hardest heroes in the game to play, you have to know which spell you want to use in each team battle. yeah ur gonna master the hardest hero in the game in 2-3 times yo we believe you yo

XXXandBEER wrote:

And on a closing note sheep tag skill is never ending i have yet to see anyone deny there farms from wolves. Besides when they deny auras or frosts. But no one denies regular farms while they mass its just to hard no one is at that skill level. I still believe no one in this community has "mastered" sheep tag because if they have then they could 1v5 EASY with runtag/juking. The run tag in sheep tag is an ENDLESS amount of skill

thats fucking stupid to singlely erase every farm before the wolf gets the farm kill so he can get gold. instead of doing this you can be massing at your full potential, which is far more beneficial than limiting the wolves gold. i delete farms OCCASIONALLY when im not massing at all or to delete cash farms.

XXXandBEER wrote:

APM
Dota: 100ish
Sheep Tag Sheep: 250ish/Wolf 100ish
SC2: 400-500

only reason dota doesnt require a lot of apm is because theres a time limit you have to wait to respawn when you die, you're forced to do nothing but observe the game = apm decreases. in sc2 no fucking shit thats like wc3 ladder ur constnatly doing something 24/7 til the games over. APM is irrelevant idk why u brought it up at all

Also i have yet to have the answer to the following question:
Why are the top players of sheep tag that play dota are so fucking bad at dota?

Quote :

building farms in sheep tag is similar to last hitting in dota except you have to time it so you actually get the last hit.

Building farms in Sheep Tag is similar to teleporting in the Sims except you have know how to actually teleport.

Quote :

only reason dota doesnt require a lot of apm is because theres a time limit you have to wait to respawn when you die, you're forced to do nothing but observe the game = apm decreases. in sc2 no fucking shit thats like wc3 ladder ur constnatly doing something 24/7 til the games over. APM is irrelevant idk why u brought it up at all

The fastest runner in world only averages like .01mph because most the time he is not running.

Itio still talking in this thread after drew tore it up?

Oh and lets say "oh shit im pushing my lane let me just kill my minions" lmfao zoning is harder then denying imo.

Itio we will clearly never agree and you cannot convince me and i cannot convince you so im done arguing sheep tag and dota are both video games so therefore they take 0 hardwork to get good at. You just play an enjoy.

Amir, maybe i cant become better than u at massing but runtagging im alrdy better than u were so dont judge me on my understanding of st just yet, u know im not full grown yet, well it,s not hard to play good, just a matter of how much u want to mass.